Calculus of IT - Season 3 Episode 1 - Welcome Back!!

aaaaand we're back!!

Season 3 of The Calculus of IT is here, and we're coming in hot with 40 episodes that go way beyond the AI silliness. Sure, we'll talk about GenAI when it matters - but from angles nobody else is touching. This season is about identity, autonomy, the death of IT as we know it, and why your infrastructure is probably lying to you right now.

We kicked off with a recap of Season 2's autonomy deep-dive and laid out the roadmap for what's coming. Spoiler: it's gonna kick ass.

Here's what you can expect:

What Is Identity? (Really?)
Distributed vs Centralized IT: The Eternal Battle
The Verification Economy (Because Nothing Is Real Anymore)
PowerPoint Inc.: Why We're Still Using the Cave Drawing Method
The OpenAI Walled Garden Paradox
The 99% vs 1% Data Problem (Why are we protecting all of the garbage?)
Creative Business Slop vs AI Slop
Edge + AI + Governance: The New Frontier
The Viewer/Editor Paradox (hint: not everyone deserves creator rights)
The COVID Retrospective: What changed forever for no particular reason
Building a Website in 2026: Who still does this and why?
The Death of the Password (For real this time - we mean it)
...and 28 more topics that'll make you rethink everything

Join us every Wednesday (unless we change it, because...you know...autonomy). 

Transcript

Season 3 - Episode 1 - Final - Audio Only
===

Nate McBride: [00:00:00] All right. And so you're gonna go up, go up against Stablecoin or some of the other sort of, um, economies and try and beat them? 

Mike Crispin: Well, it'd be great. Maybe I just make 12 coins and sell them each for dollar. 

Nate McBride: Just as it 12. 

Mike Crispin: 12. Coins. Coins. And then they'll be really rare. 

Nate McBride: Only 12 coins. 

Mike Crispin: Only 12 coins. 

Nate McBride: Um, yeah, I mean, that makes sense, right?

Don't they have those, um, coins? The eagle coins. The Eagle, Eagle, silver dollars you can buy. 

Mike Crispin: And then I'll hide one somewhere in the world and someone will have to go find it. 

Nate McBride: Would, if someone found it, would it be like an equivalent, like a fiat currency? I mean, would you, could you buy a car with it?

Mike Crispin: Depends on how much demand I can create for it. It could be like the last golden ticket in Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. 

Nate McBride: It could be but 12 you say. Huh? 

Mike Crispin: 12. 

Nate McBride: [00:01:00] So when, when, when are Chris, Chris Bow, marsh, marsh coins coming out? 

Mike Crispin: Um, I'm still writing the, all the code for it right now. 

Nate McBride: You, you're creating the blockchain?

Mike Crispin: Yeah, I've got a, it's really, really intricate, uh, ledger of, um, it's like, it's like two columns and, uh, six rows. I'm sorry, 12 rows. 

Nate McBride: Well, 

Mike Crispin: and 

Nate McBride: that's all great and fine, but are you using v are you using the V lookups? 

Mike Crispin: No, there, there's, uh, it's just a basic table and it each, each one has a random hash, so it looks kind of complicated and scary.

And you'll have to, that last hash will be a secret. Secret hash. 

Nate McBride: Secret hash. 

Mike Crispin: Yep. So you'll, I'll let you guys know about how it's going. It's been, it's gonna take a lot of work. 

Nate McBride: Did you know, speaking of secret hash, did you know they just [00:02:00] cracked the, um, crypt, cryptos, uh, code at the NSA last month? 

Mike Crispin: I did not.

I did not know that. You 

Nate McBride: know how they, you know how they cracked it? 

Mike Crispin: How'd they do it? 

Nate McBride: Well, the guy who wrote it put the solution in a book and somebody found the book. 

Mike Crispin: Really? 

Nate McBride: That's how they cracked the seventh code. Cryptos. Yeah. 

Mike Crispin: Did I read about that today? 

Nate McBride: No. I put it, I put it on our, our ca official calculus of it.

Um, slack board. 

Mike Crispin: Yes. That's 

Nate McBride: where I got, which you can, which you can access in our show notes. Did I say that out? Did I say out loud? Did I give away the secret of how to get onto our kick ass calculus of it? Slack board? 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. Can't you get to it from the coit.us site too? 

Nate McBride: COIT us. That's right. You can get to it from there as well.

Mike Crispin: Yep. 

Nate McBride: Um, I think honestly, you can [00:03:00] find it on all the, the podcast things. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah, 

Nate McBride: check it out. 

Mike Crispin: It's only a few away and you can chat with everyone. It's in there 

Nate McBride: looking for Google, looking for, um, not Google for the calculus of it by Google. 

Mike Crispin: There's, I think there's 45 like CIOs in there, right? Something like that.

Nate McBride: Something like that. 

Mike Crispin: Most likely. 

Nate McBride: A lot, a lot of smart people. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. 

Nate McBride: We only want smart people. Very 

Mike Crispin: smart. Very 

Nate McBride: smart. The smartest, um, yeah, cryptos man. It was, uh, it was decrypted, so it's now Cryp da. 

Mike Crispin: Oh, 

Nate McBride: yep. Kryptos is now Kryp Das 

Mike Crispin: Kryp das. 

Nate McBride: Hey, by the way, guess, guess what we're doing right now? 

Mike Crispin: What are we doing right now, Nate?

Nate McBride: We are doing the calculus of IT podcast season.[00:04:00] 

Mike Crispin: Three. 

Nate McBride: Three.

COIT Trance Bot: The calculus of it.

Season three,

verifying this identity.

Sometimes you just have to take it.

Sometimes you just have to it

because it's season three divided Autonomy,

verifying.

The [00:05:00] calculus of it.

Mike Crispin: Unbelievable. 

Nate McBride: I know. 

Mike Crispin: I was trying to think about it for a minute and it came to me quickly 

Nate McBride: and we've done at least a thousand episodes, uh, between seasons one and two. I lost count. Count 

Mike Crispin: a thousand episodes. Count. Yeah. It's 

Nate McBride: thousand episodes. 

Mike Crispin: It's run by Fast though, right? 

Nate McBride: Yeah. We, we literally just had episode 1000 at the end of season two.

How many other podcasts have a thousand episodes between two seasons? I mean, come on. 

Mike Crispin: And we're just, we were just rolling through 'em. You know, it was a nice break though, [00:06:00] that you take a breather after that thousand episodes. 

Nate McBride: I needed a breather. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. 

Nate McBride: Um, 

Mike Crispin: that was, that was insane. 

Nate McBride: No, it was good. It was good.

I'm very happy, happy about it. Um, I will tell you this though. I did miss you. 

Mike Crispin: I missed you as well. I missed you as well. I missed the conversations. I missed the banter. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. 

Mike Crispin: I missed the ban. Guess banter. 

Nate McBride: Yeah, the banter. Um, by, by the way, I forgot to tell you, I'm remiss. I know this would be a very important, big, important to you.

On March 4th, 2026, the Phil Collins story is playing at Emerson Colonial Theater. 

Mike Crispin: I did see that. 

Nate McBride: And the presale just went on sale last week. And then my, my question, I was wondering like, who are they gonna get to play the dead guy? The guy that he kills in the canoe. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. I don't know if they're gonna reenact that [00:07:00] scene or not.

You know, Phil, uh, 

Nate McBride: we should take, we should take the calculus of it podcast to the Emerson Colonial and get this, get the, get the bottom line. Just finally, finally, put this to bed. 

Mike Crispin: I have no idea what it is. Some sort of dense show or something. I, I saw the, um, the coming attraction to it. Like the, 

Nate McBride: here's the description, 

Mike Crispin: the trailer, and I didn't even know what it was.

Nate McBride: Here's the description. The Phil Collins story is an epic tribute show. 

Mike Crispin: Okay. 

Nate McBride: The Chronicles Chronicles his legendary career from his chart topping with Genesis to writing. Jenny, don't lose that number.

Mike Crispin: Jenny. It's Billy. Billy. Don't lose that number. 

Nate McBride: I know. I was, uh, the other Jenny song. 

Mike Crispin: Oh, that's great. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. To, uh, but, 

Mike Crispin: but we, but they get, but they get the idea. They get the idea. 

Nate McBride: I know. This is really, this is what's written in the prompt to killing his [00:08:00] best friend in the canoe, uh, to winning to his multi Grammy winning solo career to his academy.

Award-winning work for Disney. 

Mike Crispin: Mm-hmm. 

Nate McBride: What did he do for Disney? 

Mike Crispin: The Tarzan soundtrack was a big one. 

Nate McBride: Are you making that up? 

Mike Crispin: I'm serious. Tarzan and Brother Bear, I think was another one 

Nate McBride: from the initial downbeat to the closing symbol Choke. The closing symbol. Choke. 

Mike Crispin: No way. How was that? You're full of it.

Nate McBride: No, it says that from the initial downbeat to the closing symbol choke. 

Mike Crispin: Oh. Maybe that's what you do when you hold the symbol down and you hit it. Is that a symbol? Choke? 

Nate McBride: No. That's the name of our new podcast is what it is. 

Mike Crispin: I gotta look that up. 

Nate McBride: Closing symbol choke 

Mike Crispin: closing Symbol choke. 

Nate McBride: By the way that our new closing symbol choke A IAF shirts will be in the, um, store, [00:09:00] which is also linked to the bottom of our podcast notes.

Mike Crispin: It's when they, when they hit the symbol and they, they grab with their hand to stop it from going, sh and they, they stop it right with their hand, like when they like that. 

Nate McBride: Okay. Well, from the initial down 

Mike Crispin: like that, 

Nate McBride: from the initial downbeat to the closing symbol, choke, the beat goes on with the Phil Collins story.

Mike Crispin: Wow. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. Buy tickets now. Emerson Colonial Theater next March 4th. 

Mike Crispin: They just had a show, you know the movie Clue? 

Nate McBride: Yeah. It came out in the eighties. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah, they did like a whole Clue Spectacular on Halloween. That was a great movie. Did you see that movie? It's hilarious. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. I, I saw it, I saw it at the $1 theater and not because I was like living in the fifties, but because in Bristol Island in the, the 1980s, it was a dollar to go to Bristol Cinema.

Mike Crispin: Yeah. There was a place in Weymouth called the Cameo that had had a dollar cinema, saw some, 

Nate McBride: yeah, [00:10:00] 

Mike Crispin: they had all the old movies stuff. I used to love that. Very good stuff. 

Nate McBride: Well, like I said, it's good to see you again too. Your bright, shining face. Everything's, everything's good at, uh, the whole, the, the office, the corporate life is, uh, treating you well, sir.

Mike Crispin: Everything is going great. Yeah, I That's 

Nate McBride: awesome. 

Mike Crispin: Everything is going great. No, no, no problems. And, um. Time is just going by so fast and just 

Nate McBride: do, do you actually know that time, time was by a chronic relative speed? Like it doesn't go faster ever. 

Mike Crispin: It's it's all relative, right? 

Nate McBride: Yeah. 

Mike Crispin: It's all 

Nate McBride: I just wanted.

Sure. I didn't know if you know that or not. Like I, I didn't know it myself till recently. I wikipediaed it and then I figured out that time is actually relatively 

Mike Crispin: Yeah, 

Nate McBride: relatively relative. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. It's like the show goes by so fast for us and it goes by fast for everyone else too. [00:11:00] 

Nate McBride: Well, or, or it goes really slow and they put it on the two x speed, in which case they're, 

Mike Crispin: yeah, 

Nate McBride: they're, they're actually doubling time.

They're making time choices. 

Mike Crispin: I would slow it down. So we're, we're so nice and relaxed. 

Nate McBride: Have you ever listened to our podcast? 

Mike Crispin: Very soothing. 

Nate McBride: Very soothing. At quarter, at quarter speed, 

Mike Crispin: quarter speed that we should recommend. 

Nate McBride: No, we, what we should do is we should record episode two at quarter speed, but at one x speed, but speak at quarter speed.

Mike Crispin: Let's do it. Let's 

Nate McBride: try that one. That way, if they played it at quarter speed, it would be quarter, 

Mike Crispin: I think the better, better 

quarter 

Nate McBride: speed, 

Mike Crispin: better way for you to do that is just to slow it down with your, with your, um, video tools and then upload it. Uh, they're 

Nate McBride: not my, by 

Mike Crispin: the way, they're video. 

Nate McBride: They're not my video tools.

They're my closing. Simple chokes. 

Mike Crispin: Yes, you need to use your special video tools. [00:12:00] Some very special tools. I, I heard 

Nate McBride: special tools 

Mike Crispin: that you use. 

Nate McBride: No. Have you seen the videos? I mean, come on. Where's Yeah. I, I'm surprised Hollywood hasn't called this yet. 

Mike Crispin: The Max Studio Pro. You dice it up, slow it down, speed it up, 

Nate McBride: speed it up, slow it down.

I, I cut out all the, the bad parts. Adding the good parts. 

Mike Crispin: What are you talking about? This is fresh. This is very fresh. You don't take anything out, do you? 

Nate McBride: I, uh, oh. Ah, ah yeah. Ah, ah. 

Mike Crispin: And that's it. 

Nate McBride: Hey Mike 

Mike Crispin: Finn.

Nate McBride: No, I would never cut anything out except for the really nasty swear parts. Those I have to cut out. 'cause there might be a kid in the car. 

Mike Crispin: It's funny, we used to swear a lot in the first season. I was watching a few episodes and Yeah, you, you swore a lot. 

Nate McBride: We still fucking swear a lot. And you have a lot of fucking 

Mike Crispin: candles.

I'm trying to keep up with you with the swearing. I was like, oh, I'm gonna have to swear. And 

by 

Nate McBride: the way, 

Mike Crispin: awkwardly 

Nate McBride: few. Well what We need a time [00:13:00] lapse of all the seasons, but of your, of the roof, of the ceiling, of your room. We need a time lapse. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. It keeps falling. It keeps falling. Um, 

Nate McBride: why won't we be able to see into your kitchen?

Mike Crispin: It adds amazing character and there's only one or two bats that live up there, so, um. I built up a great immunity. Okay. I seriously did have a bat in the house. Uh, this 

Nate McBride: Did you name him? 

Mike Crispin: No, it was scary. He woke up and he was flying around my bedroom and I was asleep and I thought it was a dream and I woke up and, um, found him in my living room, uh, the dining room the next night on the floor.

So 

Nate McBride: was he 

Mike Crispin: drunk? No, he was, he was, uh, trying to fly and, uh, then I got all these rabies shots and everything. That was awesome. I had so much fun and, uh, rabies shots out there that through the highlight of my, uh, time away from the [00:14:00] podcast was 

Nate McBride: how many rabies shots are there? 

Mike Crispin: So you get a set of four, you get a set of four different sets of shots.

So four different visits, so 16 

Nate McBride: shots altogether. 

Mike Crispin: It was immuno glob in the. And then two shots. So it was four shots plus two, which was six. So one in each leg, one in each arm, one in the buttock, and then, um, come back in a couple weeks and you get another two shots. And then the following two weeks you get one and one.

And, uh, it was glorious. Had a great time. And the, i, I went to the, because I screwed up the timing, or they told me to come back at the wrong time. They're like, oh, we're closed. Our lab is closed. So I had to go to the ER and wait six hours for the last shot. So, 

Nate McBride: but 

Mike Crispin: it was 

Nate McBride: good. Here's the question that our, that all the audience wants to know is, can you see better?

Mike Crispin: Oh yeah. I have superpowers now because of this. 

Nate McBride: Can you, can you [00:15:00] hear things? No, people can't hear. 

Mike Crispin: I can. And that's, this is the bat cave down here. Could you tell 

Nate McBride: all 

Mike Crispin: the technologies and, uh, and all the, you know, all the bats live up here. And they, um, they've become my friends. 

Nate McBride: Well, I don't have any bats, but I have killed a lot of mice.

Mike Crispin: You have? 

Nate McBride: Uh, and I don't feel any mice superpowers because I'm not sure they have any. But, um, you know, I feel like we're, I feel like we're season three, man. What's a big deal? Like, we're good. 

Mike Crispin: We get rid of the bats. The bats are gone. 

Nate McBride: Get rid of the bats. 

Mike Crispin: Season three. 

Nate McBride: So I, I want first say by the way, that, uh, I have to give a shout out.

You know, I put out a new book this summer that I para Yes, you did. Uh, the Autonomy Paradox, and we finished up our season of last year, and one person bought us five beers. Uh, so Bryce Lay is the best fucking guy [00:16:00] ever. Bryce. You're literally the best person ever. 

Mike Crispin: Bryce, thank 

Nate McBride: you much, first of all, so much.

You need, you need a raise. So you. Mike and I endorse whatever you need for get for a raise. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah, we 

Nate McBride: would, we should get, um, a free your own, your own lane on the highway, basically 

Mike Crispin: how much beers mean to us and your support. Thank you very much. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. So to Bryce le I'm going to raise a lag toast. Nice. This is, uh, not the one, the log one that you bought, Bryce.

This is, uh, from last year. But with your $15, I'm gonna go buy another bottle or a fourth of a bottle, but I'm gonna buy it anyway. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah, that stuff is good, huh? I forgot. I haven't had that in a long time. 

Nate McBride: And by the way, um, Bryce is the only one who can use the bias of beer link at the bottom of our podcast.

Anybody can [00:17:00] use it, right? Is that right, Mike? 

Mike Crispin: Anybody, 

Nate McBride: anybody can use it. So Bryce didn't have like a special computer or a special password or some secret code. He just went, he literally went to the, the link. He pressed it and he put in five and bought us five beers. So Bryce Lay, this is the greatest person on the planet without question.

Um, so we talked about Phil Collins, we talked about Bryce Lay. I think we're done for the episode. 

Mike Crispin: Any other beers come in? 

Nate McBride: No, we had beer. We had like some beers last season, but we shouted them out and they, they, there weren't that many, but they were good people. Bryce though, o is my guy. 

Mike Crispin: So if someone buys a coffee versus a beer, do you know the difference or is it they all go to the beer?

Nate McBride: They can only buy a beer. 

Mike Crispin: I see. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. 

Mike Crispin: That's cool. 

Nate McBride: They could buy, they could buy a coffee, beer. I mean, there's beers that have coffee in them. 

Mike Crispin: That's true. [00:18:00] Well, we can decide where the, 

Nate McBride: they're basically called 

Mike Crispin: beer investment goes, so that's good. Excellent. 

Nate McBride: Yeah, no, no. We can re divert the beer investment into what, what I like to call alcohol futures.

Those are big bottles of alcohol 'cause they last, you know, in the future. Um, so in addition to Phil Collins and Bryce Lay, I don't really have anyone else to mention tonight, uh, to give shout outs to. Yeah. So maybe we talk about the season. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah, let's do that. We got a lot to talk about this season.

There's a whole 

Nate McBride: Yeah. 

Mike Crispin: List of topics we've come up, come up with during the off time that we've had 

Nate McBride: and we had some off time and during that time off we came up with a list of 40 episodes. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. There's a significant amount of stuff in there. 

Nate McBride: We talked last season about making this season about identity.

So we're gonna do that, but also we're gonna talk about [00:19:00] things around identity. 'cause identity is just one episode, but we're talking about all the things that impact identity. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah, everything 

Nate McBride: identity 

Mike Crispin: from that really. 

Nate McBride: Everything does, like what's your identity, Mike? Well, I mean now you don't know 'cause you're, you're part bat.

So, you know, my, 

Mike Crispin: my brain is scrambled and now I have all these superpowers, so my subconscious is completely moved forward. 

Nate McBride: That's so meta 

Mike Crispin: interesting things happening. So 

Nate McBride: is the bat operating at a future you moment and then corresponding that back to the current You, 

Mike Crispin: it's, uh, it is operating in the future in a different kind of metaverse, so, 

Nate McBride: oh, 

Mike Crispin: it can communicate back with me in the morning, right after I wake up, I get a message from the bat.

Nate McBride: Sweet 

Mike Crispin: from the other Metaverse. I kind of, 

Nate McBride: I do the same. I do the same thing with Slack. Like I wake up in the morning and my messages come to me from the past. [00:20:00] 

Mike Crispin: From the past. 

Nate McBride: Well, if someone sends me a message right now, 

Mike Crispin: phone Slack and you can look backwards. Right? 

Nate McBride: If someone sends me a message right now, I won't get it until tomorrow.

So in the future, 

Mike Crispin: you know, slack should release a time machine feature where you can go back in time and see everything that was discussed. That'd be really cool.

Nate McBride: Oh, that'd be fricking genius if they could do that. Only if they could only do that or like search and find things. Um, hey, speaking of, speaking of awesome shit, I forgot to mention that. Tomorrow, 

Mike Crispin: yep. 

Nate McBride: Thursday, November 6th, PAX e tickets go on sale. 

Mike Crispin: Wow. It's that time again. 

Nate McBride: March 26th to March 29th. PAX East at the BCEC.

Mike Crispin: Wow. 

Nate McBride: The one, the only PAX East. So, um, cancel work, get, get the COVID or [00:21:00] glaucoma or whatever. Get, get one of the things for a couple days, but tickets go on sale tomorrow. 

Mike Crispin: Wow. 

Nate McBride: So anyway. Last season. Yeah. Last. We're totally going. Are you kidding me? Last season we talked about autonomy and the loss of it, and I think we both walked away.

At least I did anyway. Um, with a whole shitload of holy crap. Um, it's going away. We're losing it at a rapid rate, and the only thing that you can do is kind of stand up to it. Um, people will have it harder than others, especially if you're in a Microsoft centric world where all your decisions have already been made for you for the next 10 years.

Um, but 

Mike Crispin: hard ecosystem to get out of. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. But then we also had to acknowledge the fact that we're building ecosystems by not making those zero decisions. Um, because you start building dependencies on anything that you implement. Yeah. You can implement the most crazy wackadoodle [00:22:00] solution in the world tomorrow, like fucking paint.

Uh, and then next thing you know, a year later everyone's using Microsoft Paint in your company and you're in, you're in the matrix. 

Mike Crispin: You accumulate technical debt no matter what you put in. 

Nate McBride: Exactly. Well said. Well said. 

Mike Crispin: An obvious statement. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. No, no. 

Mike Crispin: That if you put in a bunch of things, whether it's on your own.

Decision. So 

what 

Nate McBride: can you do? 

Mike Crispin: You're gonna pile stuff up, man, 

Nate McBride: right? You can either, every single year rip out everything you have and replace it with new stuff on principle and just to exercise your autonomy. Or you can find some kind of middle balance, right? Yeah, we talked about that last year. 

Mike Crispin: Yes, we did.

Nate McBride: Um, so that's what we, that, so listen, season two was about this problem and AI is not making it any better. We're going to actually talk about this in a coming episode. But, [00:23:00] um, effectively your willingness to do more and more work inside of general AI has exceeded your clever level and now you're getting into a dependency level where if you could honestly, legitimately turn it off tomorrow, you know, that would be your true test of autonomy if you could turn it off, if you're now so dependent on to do your work.

Well then my friend, you've got a small problem. Um. I think it's gonna be hard for a lot of people to fix this one when they get too far in. Sure. We're, we're gonna talk about that. So that will be, I think we have an episode on the Guard, the open walled Garden open AI walled garden paradox coming up in a few weeks.

So anyway, I thought it'd be cool. So Mike and I have a list of 40 episodes. Could end up being a little bit less, could end up being a little bit more, um, we're not in a hurry, [00:24:00] but, um, but we, we sat down, we went through these and there's some pretty kick ass ones on here in my opinion, but I'll, I'll throw it to Mike.

Yeah, I agree. And ask him, what are you most stoked about for this season? 

Mike Crispin: So, I know we're going to talk about identity and how that applies to so many things and you know, when I think of identity, I think of not just the. Technology, the technology that we use for the identity, single sign-on systems and identity management systems, but also sort of the identity of it as a group, your personal identity as a leader, and then your sort of digital identity that transcends work and your personal environment, their personal life, and then how you interact with AI and how that is identified.

So there's a few things in this season that I think are exciting. One is [00:25:00] this wave of new skills and capabilities that I think will define something that's been spoken about, a bit called the verification economy. And we'll do some discussion on that in one of the episodes. And largely being that.

Verification in this world where we don't know what's real, even more so now than ever before. I didn't think it could get much worse than it is now, but it's gonna get worse. And it, I think it's going to create a whole new set of jobs and, um, skills that'll need to be learned by people or just overarching just ways of cataloging, verification, and proving.

I 

Nate McBride: wanna, I wanna come back to that point, but keep going. Sorry. 

Mike Crispin: And, and improving. So proofs so to speak. And I think that will drive some of this new verification economy, uh, not just tools, but practice and process. And then I think there's a few episodes [00:26:00] on, uh, one is on edge AI in governance and what I'm excited.

Yeah. Good one about in that space is, uh, I, I've spent a lot of time in the last probably three months moving away from. AI in the browser or in the collaborative apps and moving to AI in the terminal and, um, using Cloud Code Codex and Gemini, CLI and some of those tools. And it made me realize how important the edge is going to be.

Even more important maybe than the cloud and the next, the next year even. Um, so I think that's another, gonna be another op Excellent episode that'll probably come later in the season. 'cause I, I think it'd be great to see how that evolves before we talk about it more in depth. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. 

Mike Crispin: Then, um, what was the other one, one other one here that I thought was really, really interesting?

Um, well, one thing I [00:27:00] think we're gonna do fairly early here is talk about who speaks for it and 

Nate McBride: Yeah. 

Mike Crispin: Sort of the, whether it's sort of the, the, the. The tidal wave of vendors and, and media and press coverage around technology or it's the business leadership and each of the vertical industries. Are they spending a lot of time even talking about it and how much it probably is moving more into just being part of each business function, the distributed IT discussion that we talked about in the first couple seasons.

That's gonna be awesome. Really kind of blends to that, this topic. And it's very interesting. Uh, I think budgets are moving out of it faster than ever and they're moving now I they're moving into, it's not that it isn't required to help drive those and help enable those initiatives, but. The budgeting is becoming really embedded in the functions and that's [00:28:00] also lending more to distribute and model.

So yeah, we'll talk about that. And then, um, the alternate internet is another thing that we're gonna talk a little bit, an idea that we kind of threw around. Um, talk about another sort of namespace potentially for the internet. Um, and will that be developed and will there be another sort of more accessible tour like environment that's more public?

Or is there a need for, uh, better IP addressing with the, the and DNS management with the latest outages? With AWS and gc? Yes. And Azure DNS need to be reframed and ultimately does that drive a second coming of a new wavelength of an internet? I, there'll be, I think a multi-part set of episodes on that.

Nate McBride: Yeah. 

Mike Crispin: And this, I think a lot of other things certainly to talk about, and there'll be a lot of, I think, ad-libbing with all the current events as things are so changing so quickly. I'd say those are my [00:29:00] top, top things. Uh, Nathan, what are you, what are you into, I mean, it's such a here and you've, you've bucketed a lot of these things together.

So what are you thinking about? What are you excited for? 

Nate McBride: So, so first of all, all 40 are gonna be awesome, but, but in terms of my, um, the list, the parts, the list I'm stoked about most, I guess would be I want to come back to decentralized versus, um, distributed it and uh, or sort of centralized, sorry, decentralized versus distributed.

It. I think that we gave it a nice episode. It was nice and we took, got into a little bit of detail, but, um, ultimately with IT departments now having to sort of counter morph, um, against where people in those functions are gonna live. Um, what do you actually need to be in the IT department? I guess that would be the question I'm going to ask you first is what the hell do you actually need for it?

Do you, you still need a help desk, [00:30:00] obviously. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. 

Nate McBride: Some sort of infrastructure component, uh, strategy. But do you need development anymore? I mean, again, we don't talk about today necessarily, but 

Mike Crispin: Yeah, 

Nate McBride: like the IT department has changed and no one's I know, not no one, sorry, 

Mike Crispin: I I think where the, the bombs you can drop in that episode.

And we talked a little bit about it in season one is do you need strategy? 

Nate McBride: Do you need Exactly. 

Mike Crispin: Um, and that, that sounds like, what the heck are you talking about? But is there a pretty good game plan that gets you a year or two or three into your business' journey? Well, I know that sounds crazy without an IT strategy.

No, you can just ask for one. 

Nate McBride: Oh, but there's so many, you know what I mean? There's so, yeah. No, there's so many variables to come into that. Like if you're a top down company from a budget budgeting perspective versus a bottom up, I mean, [00:31:00] these all dictate what it can and can't do. There's so many factors that IT leaders have no control over.

They may, they may know about it, they may not know about it, but they're not asking about the interviews. They're not asking, is it a top down or bottom up budgeting company? 'cause if you walk into a top down budgeting company as an IT leader, guess what? You have fucking zero decisions to make. They're all already made for you.

Welcome to the suck. So that's, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna have to go deep, deep on that episode. Yeah. I wanted to talk about something that you and I have talked about a few times, which is, could Slack become an operating system? And I will, I, I wanna bring this up earlier in the season only because, um.

Well, people are now talking about alternative operating systems. Mm-hmm. It's all idio. It's all idiocy. Mind you. But 

Mike Crispin: yep. 

Nate McBride: If we, if we look at a basic simple stack, uh, security identity, um, storage, communication, and collaboration. Well, [00:32:00] what if a application can do all that? So anyway, um, we'll, I can't wait to talk about that.

I wanna talk 

Mike Crispin: about creative. An operating system for a business could help prescribe the operating model. 

Nate McBride: Oh my God. 

Mike Crispin: Just, just like, just like Oracle or, uh, that's ERP has all of the, the finances, not all, but some of the core finance workflows built in out of the box. Wouldn't it be great if you could buy a business operating system that already has.

A templated operating model built in. 

Nate McBride: Well, so, so we don't have to go, we don't have to go back too far to find a time when it wasn't Microsoft versus Apple. It was Oracle versus IBM. Sure. And you, you were one of those two companies. I mean, going back to early Amag, we were an Oracle company. 

Mike Crispin: Yep. 

Nate McBride: Um, 

Mike Crispin: yeah, 

Nate McBride: sorry.

TKT, I'm sorry. TKT We were an Oracle company. Sure. And that was that, uh, then we became a Sun, HPUX, Linux, Unix company, and then [00:33:00] whatever. Um, then I wanna talk about, so this is kind of a one episode, but I, I wanna talk about PowerPoint and why, and I wanna talk about it from a bunch of angles, but how the fuck we got here?

Why? It's the only way to tell any story in a company. It's the most unimaginative piece of shit I can think of, but it's, it's why we. Why we, why do we do that? I mean, there was a caveman, right? One day, thousands of years ago, and he grabbed a, a, a burning ember out of the fire, waited till it cooled down, and then drew a, a horse on a cave, right?

That was PowerPoint. It was invented at that moment, and we'd been doing the same five by eight white box shit since. So I wanna talk about that. Um, I can't wait to talk about could you build anything you wanted with just simply, um, a workflow engine and a CWP platform. [00:34:00] Um, we will deal with dive, I 

Mike Crispin: think it go really agentic on that one too.

Nate McBride: Yeah. So this will be, no, I'm dying with you, man. That'll be totally, that'll be great. Like how, how, if you just had a good engine and I'm just gonna even like, say Zapier or something, right? A good engine, uh, and a nice little CWP platform on top. You know, Airtable, pick your, pick your one. You could basically conquer the world 

Mike Crispin: one.

Can't wait to talk about that one. That's gonna be 

Nate McBride: awesome. You could build, you could build like autonomous electronic cars that people would buy in the, the, the tens of thousands. Um, 

Mike Crispin: can I on that for one sec? I won't go down a rabbit hole, but I, I just wanna say one thing about that and almost going back to the edge this is com.

Nate McBride: Yeah. 

Mike Crispin: Comparable to the edge discussion too, is I think that, um, everything goes in full circle, right? We go, you know, from mainframes to 

Nate McBride: very cheap second thing about that 

Mike Crispin: client server to, to cloud, uh, you know, to back to sort of some [00:35:00] sort of edge computing it seems, and you know, with the, the emergence of these, like the cps, you know, that Claude and others use, Claude came up with and others are using now.

Um, we may get back to after edge to multiple. Small clients, which in essence are agents. So that Nate, you have, you have a, you know, a, a bunch of docker instances running and at your house or at a business, right? Mm-hmm. And they are running hundreds of agents, and it's just better to run them, uh, you know, on a, on a little Nvidia box or a, you know, a yeah, a big server locally instead, because they're gonna require latency to look, you're gonna need them local, then putting them up in a cloud somewhere where you're gonna pay for those cycles.

And it, it just, it, it's amazing how things go around in circles is all I'm saying. But I think, 

Nate McBride: well, the, the bot army model that was [00:36:00] popularized with BitTorrent and Lime wire. Yeah. I mean, 

Mike Crispin: yeah. Keep it under your desk. 

Nate McBride: It works. 

Mike Crispin: It sounds crazy, but we're going there. 

Nate McBride: Distributed processing. It works. 

Mike Crispin: But I, I, I digress, but go ahead.

Sorry. 

Nate McBride: No, we should actually make episode 41 about that. Um, do it. I wanna talk about the open AI walled garden paradox. So how, how people that have gone all in an open AI in the last, say 16 months or so, effed, uh, when it comes to this, what's, what's gonna happen next? So we talk about the open AI walled garden.

I wanna talk about an idea. It's a fantasy idea and no, it's safe for work. It's a what if storage wasn't infinite? So everyone now assumes they have unlimited storage. What would happen, and someone should run an experiment on this, and so we're gonna talk about this. If you gave someone one gigabyte of space [00:37:00] for everything, and you had to make the most compelling messages and, and work with one gigabyte of space or some small amount, what would that do?

I don't wanna explore that. That'll be awesome. Plus, 

Mike Crispin: yep. 

Nate McBride: We talked about this in both seasons, the 99% versus 1% data problem. Why do we apply the same rules to all data when only 1% of the data actually matters? And, um, we're wasting however much money, resources cycle time to protect all the shit data versus when we only need to protect 1% of it.

Um, we talked about this last season. It's one of my favorite episodes ever, the viewer editor paradox. Why does everyone get editor rights? 

Mike Crispin: Yep. 

Nate McBride: Why does everybody in the company get the right to create on day one? Um, it should be earned, not given. [00:38:00] And we should be talking about who should be viewers and who should be editors in the company.

And then lastly, I, I guess the, the, the, the, probably the most fun one that I think we'll have. It will be the COVID retrospective. What did COVID change technologically we will never, um, go back from, and what and why weren't those things changed before COVID? So that we'll talk about, that's like episode, um, that 

Mike Crispin: was interesting.

Nate McBride: 32, I think. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. 

Nate McBride: Oh, long and short of it is some awesome shit of sight. 

Mike Crispin: A lot of good content for us to talk about. And I'm sure there'll be other things that come up as well, but we can't even, I 

Nate McBride: mean, like this, this, this new AI thing they're talking about. Is that what you're talking about? 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. Well I guess so there's some of that stuff, but there's, I think there'll be other things that come up as well this 

Nate McBride: year.

You know, one of my favorite, favorite moments each week is just getting that email from Anthropic that they have new features in Claude every [00:39:00] week. And I'm like, I, I don't give a shit anymore. You fucking release all the features you want. I'm still, I'm, I'm cool with the features you released a year ago so you can stop.

Who involved. 

Mike Crispin: The good thing about Anthropic is that they, even though they are releasing these new features, they stay pretty focused on what they are trying to do, as opposed to, you talk about the open AI wall, the garden, it's like, there's just great pictures, great movies. You've got Codex, you've got a studio for development, you've got a number of different thinking engines, you've got research, you've got all these other things that it does.

And it's, it really clouds the value proposition of the, how good their engine is. It's, it's getting confusing as to to know what to use when. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. 

Mike Crispin: And it doesn't, it's, you know, one of the other things I like about Cloud is that it's just not, 'cause I've been using it a lot here in the last couple. Couple months [00:40:00] for, on the Codex side is just how disciplined you need to be with your tokens and that that's a good lesson for people.

Uh, and you've mentioned that in season two. Yeah. And just, and I think it's something that if you're used to chat GBT, you take that for granted and you may not realize your context window sucks in chat pt. Um, compared to what you're gonna get in Gemini or Claude. Um, 

Nate McBride: yeah, I mean, you have to go to a, you have to go to a token distributor like Poe to get over the hurdles of, of context links.

Um, I mean, so first of all, disclaimer, we will talk about AI this season. The season's not about ai. You want ai, go find a AI podcast. Um, we're talking about things that also happen to it when AI is not happening, which is a lot of other shit. So, 

Mike Crispin: yep. 

Nate McBride: That there's that. But I wanna say one more thing about ai, which is.

So I'm just [00:41:00] gonna, um, be hypocritical to myself. I, I've been working with this company called ETH ai. Not working with them, but talking to them a lot, basically is another way to put it. And they're getting, they're doing, um, ad hoc LMS not using tokens. So they're, they're banning, they're getting rid of the token model and moving to a thing called factoids.

And you can, it's R-E-L-I-A-T-H, but they are taking a whole new approach to spontaneous XLM creation. So let's say I have a thousand documents, kind of like with an an NLM notebook, but I want to get a certain amount of research done on it in a certain way. I can create explicit X LMS that are non token based, um, using this factoid model in minutes.

So like that is what I think to be where we're gonna, where, where we should go. The token economy part. Yeah. We'll have to dip in and out of this [00:42:00] one. The vendors have no choice. They have to keep upping the token game. 

Mike Crispin: Yep. 

Nate McBride: To keep the attics involved. It's like what happened with, um, oh shit. What was the opioid?

Where they, they started out with like five milligrams. Ended up at a thousand. It was, it was a TV show about it. 

Mike Crispin: Oh, I've never heard of it. 

Nate McBride: Yeah, there was. Yeah, sure you did. It was on Netflix and there was one on Apple tv. 

Mike Crispin: Purdue Pharma, right? 

Nate McBride: Yeah. Yeah, that one. What'd they make again? 

Mike Crispin: It was, um, I have so much like, uh, Ozempic, like I hair though.

That's not, I'm just saying that's the only drug I think about. It's um, it's, 

Nate McBride: uh, now I looked it up. I feel like an idiot. I should look 

Mike Crispin: this up. I can't believe that you've maybe blank on this. 

Nate McBride: I know you see all of them too. I saw the whole season. I can't remember. And it's all over the news. Uh, Oxycon, Oxycontin.

Mike Crispin: Oxy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 

Nate McBride: yeah. 

Mike Crispin: Geez, 

Nate McBride: I don't even know what the whole fucking point of this discussion was. Like. I was talking about some kind of scale [00:43:00] using a terrible metaphor, and now here we are on Oxy. I'm not an oxy. I mean, I know you're not an Oxy anymore. I mean, you're good now, right? I'm just kidding.

Mike Crispin: Yeah, I'm, I'm great. I'm doing much better. 

Nate McBride: You're off the Oxy. Um, 

Mike Crispin: my goodness. 

Nate McBride: Thank goodness. So anyway, uh, I'm stoked about it. I would, I wanted to ask you a, the question just to, just for the hell of it. 

Mike Crispin: Sure. 

Nate McBride: Um, so based on season one, which we spent almost the entire thing on leadership. 

Mike Crispin: Yep. 

Nate McBride: It leadership in season two, we went into very great depth on I it autonomy, which is to say the loss of it.

Um. If you could make exactly three decisions technologically and only three, three wishes without anyone questioning you. So you just go And speaking of Wonka ticket, the Golden Wonka ticket, [00:44:00] uh, what would you do? 

Mike Crispin: I would get on a plane and fly. You mean it related stuff? Yeah. Oh, okay.

I don't, I 

Nate McBride: You would not, uh, yeah. Let Phil Collins out of jail for, sorry. 

Mike Crispin: No, I would, I would let, I would let him run free. Let him run free. No, I think, uh, I feel like I, I, some of the, some of the things that I've wanted to do, I, I've been able to do. Um, but I, I think some of the, um. Some of the governance items, a little more better decision making and process following, more business process, maybe management to keep, just figure out a way to make that sexy, um, would, would be, would go a long way.

And to help influence, uh, more of a corporate wide. Uh, this, pretty much every [00:45:00] company I've been in, um, just be a, a bigger part of driving a digital operating model and be having, having a way to, to do that. So the, the operating system component that we talked about a little bit earlier is, is, is exciting.

But, um, I think my biggest thing if, if I could do anything, would be to spend more time focusing on how to productize and create something that drives some revenue and to work within the construct of. The business strategies that we've had at the last company in this company. Figure out ways that we can enable and, and be closer to the product or, or be involved in creating a new product.

Um, and it, a lot of companies that's pretty far fetched to, to think you could do that, but to spend more time [00:46:00] thinking about that and per, perhaps even prototyping, um, would be something I'd be more interested in, in having more autonomy to explore. Um, in terms of IT decisions pr pretty, pretty open. I mean, sure there's different platforms I, I want to use and ex explore, but I, I'm so focused right now on trying to bring what I just mentioned towards leveraging some of the, the ability that it will have to build now versus buy.

In a simpler way than ever before is what really excites me about either productizing or enabling the business operationally, is that I think that it just, so you were mentioning Airtable and other tools, I, I think that we'll be able to go even farther and build true line of business applications, um, [00:47:00] without, without a huge application development skillset.

But what we need is in, came up in is in both your books, is the SDLC maturity. 

Nate McBride: Yes. 

Mike Crispin: And that's, that's new for a lot, a lot of people that, well, SDLC, that's, it's a project management methodology that we have now 'cause we don't do application development. Yeah. I, I think we're gonna really be able to build applications now that can do, and that can do a lot of great things.

Can automate and operate companies. And that's where I would like to have that autonomy to start saying, okay, let's build, because it's pretty easy to reproduce what we build and to show how we built it without having to do as much as we used to and, and, and, and from business continuity perspective, be able to leave it in good hands.

Yeah. If, if people change and [00:48:00] people leave or people go to different companies or whatnot. So to be given the, the keys to the ignition to drive something like that would be a great a 

Nate McBride: that'd be, that'd be a, that'd be a career capstone pretty much right there. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. I think that, and I think it's, it, it is, is more possible than ever if, if a few good proof of concepts or a few good case studies.

Come about. Um, for, and I'm talking about small companies that don't have application development firms. So they have an offshore, all their development, you know, for the most part, for any new systems or integrations that they're building. I'm talking about building a new application that people actually can use and log into and work on.

Um, that was a real no-no for small companies. Right? There is still because of the Yeah. Overhead and the, and the concerns of continuity and complications and risk. Um, I, I 

Nate McBride: mean, in order to [00:49:00] solve that problem, you'd have to, you have to solve the problem. I mean, speaking in terms of life sciences, if you were gonna allow that to happen from the get go, you'd have to solve the problem of keeping all the research entrepreneurial folks after you'd gone to, uh, phase two, the mature stage, because that's when they generally leave.

Mm-hmm. And take all their knowledge with them. Mm-hmm. Yep. Um, you have to, you sort of crack that, crack that puzzle. 

Mike Crispin: I think building it is largely get, I think that will be very possible to build and to document. I think to that point, when you're in that, you're, you're in the mature phase of it's been released, it's being used is to have the training, the stuff that we struggle with now.

Yeah. The training, the business continuity, even with a packaged application or off the shelf application would be, it's gonna be the same challenges, uh, with that, but you'll be able to build business context and 

Nate McBride: Yeah. [00:50:00] 

Mike Crispin: And speed into these applications. Um, 

Nate McBride: all, all 

Mike Crispin: the, I think away from, I mean, I'm working on something right now and it, I, I'm absolutely amazed at what I'm able to do with the tools that are available now.

Yeah. Um, so yeah, that would be autonomy. Be like, I want start. Really building some, not just building a department or, or a, or a strategy or a, um, kinda, I guess, set of goals or achieving something. I, I'd actually like to productize something. Um, yeah, I think that's, that would be very exciting. 

Nate McBride: Well, it's also relatively unheard of in, in life sciences anyway, unless your whole company's purpose is to create technology software, 

Mike Crispin: right.

Nate McBride: Or some sort of technology outcome. 

Mike Crispin: That's 

Nate McBride: right. Generally, generally, we're sort of outta sight, outta mind expense items for the business. 

Mike Crispin: Mm-hmm. 

Nate McBride: You know what I, um, when I thought about this question, [00:51:00] um, it occurred to me that, you know, to take some of the things you said a step further. I would, you know, instead of the Mac versus Windows Battle, I'd create an environment that was completely open source.

Um, it wouldn't, it wouldn't, it wouldn't matter. But there's obviously, the downside to that is I have platforms that require only one of two systems. So for instance, our ELN Benchling is not going to run necessarily on all compatible open source software. Um, 

Mike Crispin: correct. 

Nate McBride: That's true. I mean, it'll, it'll run through the browser.

Any chromium based browser will effectively run. But you know, things will start to get weird once you get into where do I save this file? Um, 

Mike Crispin: yeah. 

Nate McBride: So, uh, but I mean, again, I would magic wand it, I would wave, I would make us an entirely open source company so that every single platform we used for all of our critical layers were, um, actively accessible via an open source [00:52:00] platform, you know, Ubuntu or, or something else effectively.

So the hardware would, the hardware would be taken from taken outta the equation. 

Mike Crispin: I think, uh, that is closer than we think that, uh, I've completely just, I've Awo, uh, kind of awoken this, this, this summer and just thought about, I'm sorry, this fall and just been thinking about just that. And I think that open sourcing is, is very important, but also those endpoints that we talked about in the first season.

Nate McBride: Sure. 

Mike Crispin: Um, getting, getting, take, take node js is a good example, right? The, the, the binary and, and, um. JavaScript and jailing type platform that runs on any, that runs on any system. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. 

Mike Crispin: It is the baseline for pretty much every, uh, AI coding model that exists as well as Mark down, right, mark [00:53:00] down. So if you take all of that, why the hell do you need proprietary operating systems anymore?

And will there even be operating systems? Because a lot of this stuff is all contextual and rides above the applic, the actual application layer. 

Nate McBride: I know 

Mike Crispin: just the data layer and um, you, it really is just a command line and that's what we're dealing with and it's so elegant, like going back to that world.

And that's essentially what some of the great operating op, open source operating systems have had. It's rock solid. 

Nate McBride: You know, we don't, we don't have this as a topic this season, but sorry to interrupt you, but I almost think that we should talk about why it is IT leaders who know this to be true, do not, do not make a, um, a case for going to open source.

I can [00:54:00] talk about why I haven't, you talk why you haven't. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. 

Nate McBride: But maybe 

Mike Crispin: we should. I I think it's compatibility and support. I think it's, 

Nate McBride: well primarily, but you know, it requires a little bit of extra elbow grease on behalf of your service, uh, IT organization. But you can get almost any machine to work on Ubuntu.

Mm-hmm. And still get good performance out of it, at least from a browser perspective. Um, so long as it has wifi. So, 

Mike Crispin: yeah. 

Nate McBride: Anyway, that's 

Mike Crispin: the machine right here, that's seven years old, and it's just as, I mean, at least. From a user interface and a user experience perspective seems just as snappy as my M four Mac book I'm on right now.

Nate McBride: There's, there's that, there's machines that have USB three, uh, ports, which you can run Linux off of a USB drive. Um, I mean, there's ways to do this open source world where you can balance the two. Anyway, that would be my number one. Number two would be, and [00:55:00] you touched on this, but oh my God, if we could fricking assess and train every, every employee on day one, you go into the military and they, you know, you, you wanna enlist and they put you in bootcamp, they automatically know who's a weakling and who's strong, who can run fast, who can't, who can jump over a thing, who can't.

Right. When we hire people into a company now, it's immediately assumed, you know, everything there is to know about office. 

Mike Crispin: Mm-hmm. 

Nate McBride: You know, everything. Even though most people know, uh, 5%, maybe they don't. Yeah. They know half of one ribbon. So it would be welcome to the company. Here's your class schedule for the next two years, we're gonna get you to a baseline of knowledge about every single thing that we do here.

You'll not just learn how to superficially send a DM in Slack. You'll learn how to use Workflow Builder. You'll learn how to use all the hidden functions [00:56:00] in Slack. Like you'll learn all this and you'll be expected to use it. So I realized that one probably is the, I need, I need like a massive magic wand for that one.

And then the last one was, um, eliminating it. I'd officially eliminate it as a function. I would, I would also eliminate hr. I combine them into a new function that was fully focused on experience. So that'd be my magic wand, which would be just to eliminate it. Gone done. Um, everyone in it that's not going to contribute to an employee.

Experience's fired. Everyone else is kept and everyone's job is to make the employee experience so amazing that they generate, well, first of all, ends of one, become now twice as powerful. Mm-hmm. Um, and larger groups have now this sort of, um, group thing functionality, and they're able to process such a high speed because their experience is so great.

A little bit of Wally in here, [00:57:00] but their experience is so great. They don't want to leave. Yeah. They just wanna work. 

Mike Crispin: Yep. Now. 

Nate McBride: The two are not necessarily equal. So eliminating it and HR and creating a new group does not necessarily equivocate to everyone wanting to work 20 hour days. However, if you think about it, think about a way a lot of things work in this world.

Um, and I'll go for the low hanging fruit here with casinos, but if you make it so fun and great people will stay. 

Mike Crispin: Yep. 

Nate McBride: They will give away their house to keep doing it. So, um, that would be my, my last magic wand, which would be to finally call it a day and sunset it and make the, the better function. 

Mike Crispin: Yep.

Nate McBride: You still have developers, you still have infrastructure people, you still have, you know, service desk and all the things, but they'd be focused on something that's more important. [00:58:00] 

Mike Crispin: Yep. Yeah, it's, you're, you know, it is often the cross section and can also be the has, you should get the psychologist couches and stuff and, you know, and the, uh, computer lab 

Nate McBride: I, 

Mike Crispin: and everything.

Nate McBride: I think it had its day, years ago, but honestly, and we're just kinda limping along at this point as people that make decisions that were already made. The real impact comes from when Mike, the employee comes in the office every day, does he sit down and work and absolutely fucking kill it because he's so stoked to have such a great place to work in that meets his every need.

Mike Crispin: Yep. 

Nate McBride: Uh, if the answer is yes from Mike, then I would say that it has absolutely killed it on their job. This, this new world of it. If Mike's like God damnit every other day, that ends in the word day. My second monitor goes black. When I plug my [00:59:00] computer in. 

Mike Crispin: Yep. 

Nate McBride: Um, then, then, then ex is sort of like a de priority at that point.

Mike Crispin: Yep. 

Nate McBride: But you know, you're only up against the, the evils of Windows patches, so any monitor can die any day. It's basically my philosophy, basically every single thing thing that you're using today can die tomorrow. So enjoy every moment that you have with it. But those would be my three things. I'm not trying to be controversial, by the way, with that last one.

I have long held this belief. 

Mike Crispin: I don't think that's controversial at all. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. It's just that people look at it like, you get rid of your own job. I'm like, no, I think my job better. 

Mike Crispin: I think, uh, we are moving towards a place that the technology is going to be people. It's two things are going like this and you know, we're gonna need to, um.

Think more like [01:00:00] that, more like an HR department. Does it cross board? 

Nate McBride: I mean, just the training. 

Mike Crispin: Well, I think we already are in a lot of instances. Yeah. In a lot of 

Nate McBride: it's about the training. I mean, how much, how much of your training is, I wish Timmy would learn how to use box versus, I really wish Timmy would've learn how to do this important thing and platform X, Y, Z.

'cause not only will it help him, it'll help his job and his career and his future and his department. Like all these things that will help simultaneously if he would just stop fricking doing this other thing. 

Mike Crispin: Yep. 

Nate McBride: And, um, I mean, to pick on Timmy, but that's been, that's been an endemic for 20 years where people are like, no, no, I always do it this way.

Ever since I got a PowerPoint, I've done it this way. And I'm like, well, you're doing it completely wrong. Can I show No, no. I've always done it this way though. This is the way I, this is the way it goes. You know, I'm one with the force. The force is with me. 

Mike Crispin: It's like the [01:01:00] website is down.com. That, that, that video where the guy glas all the icons out on the desktop.

Nate McBride: But you, but you, by the way, you're dating us if you've seen the original of that. Yep. But it came out so 

Mike Crispin: Yes. 

Nate McBride: Um, what was that, 

Mike Crispin: 2000, 2005? Yeah. 

Nate McBride: 2000 ish. Yeah. He was, no, he was playing, uh, he 

Mike Crispin: was playing 

Nate McBride: Halo. Halo and, 

Mike Crispin: and the Skype call. 

Nate McBride: That's right. Uh, yes. Look this up folks. If you're listening, listen. Look, look up.

Uh, what was it called again? 

Mike Crispin: The website is down.com. 

Nate McBride: The website is down.com. It's a classic internet meme. It's the reason the internet exists. The internet was built on top of it. It's a solid structure Today, we've not for so long, um. Anyway, I'm super stoked about the season. We're gonna have so much fun.

We're back on Wednesdays nights. That means the show will be up Thursdays unless we change it. 'cause we have the right to do [01:02:00] that. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. 

Nate McBride: Um, we're always happy to accept your beer donations, but we understand times people don't want to contribute to someone else's alcoholic delinquency. In which case I feel it is absolutely appropriate for you to donate to Wikimedia.

They're getting sued like 15 times over by Elon and everybody else doesn't like what they write. But Wikimedia, which is, say Wikipedia is the most objective environment on the planet. Um, it's a bastion of hope. Donate to the ACL U, donate to life science cares. Any one of those or anything that you wanna donate to, you have a couple extra bucks in your pocket, buy the medium iced coffee, take the two bucks, donate it.

Um, again, but we're happy to accept beer donations too. [01:03:00] Um, what else? Oh, don't be a dick. You want to be a dick to that it person. 'cause you think that you're better than them. But don't you, you're probably like, like the same teams and listen to the same music and like the same things. You're both people.

So be nice to each other and as always, Mike, right. It'll, the, the rewards will come when you're nice to people and you're not a dick. It'll come back to you. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. People will, you build relationships by listening and not being 

Nate McBride: listening, 

Mike Crispin: not judging. Yeah. 

Nate McBride: You need more listeners. You're 

Mike Crispin: glad to listen to.

Nate McBride: Yeah. Have your, have your pet spade or neutered. Of course. We don't need, uh, we don't need more animals. We need animals that are loved by people, not more of them. Um, be nice to old people as always. [01:04:00] They're old, they don't know they're getting scammed. Um, I saw a wonderful, absolutely wonderful phishing scam come through today.

Mike Crispin: Okay. 

Nate McBride: About, I was involved in a wait for it, a legal notice of class session settlement. I didn't even know that I was in a class session settlement. And I have $25 coming to me. Oh, really? 

Mike Crispin: Um, 

Nate McBride: yep. If I fill out this form, uh, I can get $25 from this class section settlement. 

Mike Crispin: Wow, you should do it. 

Nate McBride: I know I should do it.

And, and if I was, um, if I had like a certain amount of unforgettable about what, what's happened in my last year of my life, I might think that I was actually part of this and give you my social security number over to these people to help me get my $25 arrangement. Um, so you have to help, 

Mike Crispin: gosh, 

Nate McBride: the old, the older folks with what they get because they're targets.

[01:05:00] Um, 

Mike Crispin: and it's just gonna get very bad. I mean, it's gonna get very bad. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. It was a very, very well crafted, um, letter. I mean, I couldn't find a single mistake in, and I took it out, copied it, pasted in the Google Docs. It was all grammatically correct, no spelling errors. Um, class action lawsuit settlement.

They followed the perfect template, um, had every believable part except for the fact that if you mouse over the links, it went to a Home Depot proxy. Apparently Home Depot does not, um, believe in D Kimm. So, um, there was 

Mike Crispin: That's amazing. Really? 

Nate McBride: Yep. 

Mike Crispin: You're, they're not on D Kim. They're on d Kimm on their address, their, uh, 

Nate McBride: domain.

Uh, if I, if I can bounce my mail through through home depot.com, there is a good chance they should maybe make a $59 a year investment MX Toolbox and just take a peek at their [01:06:00] records. Uh, but that's not, I don't work at Home Depot. I don't know. Not, I'm not a judger, not judgy. I'm a nice guy, guy, not judge.

I'm not judgy. So anyway, Mike, uh, that's it. Episode one. 

Mike Crispin: Yep. 

Nate McBride: We are, well, we're one episode away from episode two. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah, 

Nate McBride: I know. It's hard to believe it's happened so fast. Um, and episode two, we're gonna talk about identity. 

Mike Crispin: Yes, we are. 

Nate McBride: The episode, the episode is called What is Identity? Really? 

Mike Crispin: What is it really?

We're gonna go down the rabbit hole. I can't wait. 

Nate McBride: I'm thinking the red and the blue pill at the same time. I wanna see if I just stay neutral. 

Mike Crispin: I don't know Michael Gray. I 

Nate McBride: wonder what happened if Leo took Michael 

Mike Crispin: Purple. 

Nate McBride: Well, would happened if Neo took both pills, would he be like in an in between? 

Mike Crispin: He would've broken the internet.

He would've the woken up and believed [01:07:00] whatever he wanted to believe and he would've woken up. Actually, I wonder. Probably would've, would he be, would 

Nate McBride: he been the upside down? 

Mike Crispin: I think nothing would've happened. I think it would've been totally neutralized. And he would've and he would not. So 

Nate McBride: he would've just not existed?

Mike Crispin: No. He would've just kept, he would not, he would've gone home and gotten to bed. He wouldn't have woken up in his bed the next day. Like you remember, he is supposedly, he'll wake up tomorrow and forget it. It ever happened. Yeah. Forget 

Nate McBride: ever happened. Yeah. Yeah. 

Mike Crispin: So if he takes both the pills, then he just 

Nate McBride: then, then agent 

Mike Crispin: knocks out the door and goes home and instead of waking up.

COIT Trance Bot: Yeah, 

Mike Crispin: that's, 

Nate McBride: well, I don't know. It's a good, good topic. I mean, maybe we should talk about this is if he took both a current pill on a future pill, would you be like a little bit in the future? Because there's like, what's the middle point? 

Mike Crispin: [01:08:00] I think that you would just, it would, they'd just cancel each other out and nothing would happen.

Nate McBride: Oh, it's fascinating. Well, when we think about identity then Mike, we should apply this astoundingly deep metaphor. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. 

Nate McBride: To identity. Does Mike, at what point does Mike exist versus does he not exist? And is the moment when he's authenticating at that second? Is that when you're in between the two pills? 

Mike Crispin: Is he real or is he not real?

Nate McBride: Well, your your red pill, no, sorry. Blue pill at the moment, you're typing in your password and then you switch over to red pill because now you're inside. 

Mike Crispin: Yep. 

Nate McBride: Or the other way around 

Mike Crispin: works. 

Nate McBride: Which one is the red one anyway? 

Mike Crispin: Red one is the rabbit hole. 

Nate McBride: Okay. Yeah. Blue to red. Yeah. You get the point. Um. That's identity [01:09:00] in a nutshell.

That's next season, next episode, not next season. That's, that's it for season three. We'll see you next week for season four.

Mike Crispin: Very good. 

Nate McBride: Anything else you wanna add, Mike? 

Mike Crispin: No, I'm excited. I'm glad to be back and I been looking forward to going through this list. Uh, Nate and I met two or three times 

Nate McBride: Yeah, 

Mike Crispin: last couple months and went on and on about all the things we wanted to talk about and condensed it to 40 episodes. Um, and so it's gonna be fun and it's good to be back and we'll, we'll keep 'em in the, in the format.

Yeah. We can get down to 39. 

Nate McBride: Yeah, we can get down to 39. 

Mike Crispin: Oh, maybe let, well, we can, we can, that can be our, if, if we have autonomy, we can bring it down to 39. 

Nate McBride: What if we did 1 24 hour episode for the whole season? [01:10:00] 

Mike Crispin: Yeah, 

Nate McBride: like a marathon. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah. Let's see if we can do it. I, I would do it like an all-nighter thing.

We can put it live on Twitch. 

Nate McBride: Yeah. I don't think Twitch 

Mike Crispin: wants to see both the 

Nate McBride: napping 

Mike Crispin: and then we could put it on Poly Market and see how many people vote. If we have more than one listener.

We'll, calculus of it have more than five listeners on their 24 hour podcast. 

Nate McBride: Could be. 

Mike Crispin: It could be. 

Nate McBride: I know some people I could call that I could get them to just go on. 

Mike Crispin: Yeah, we could put it up on Poll Market and see what happens. 

Nate McBride: All right. Well I'm psyched to see who our guests are this season. I think I know who some of them will be.

Maybe we'll get some new guests. Um, 

Mike Crispin: yeah, that'd be great. 

Nate McBride: It would be, uh, I've run outta friends and so if you know anybody who's a friend, maybe you can call them. 

Mike Crispin: I'll give 'em a buzz. 

Nate McBride: I just have to call enemies now. [01:11:00] All right. Well, Mike, it was great to see you again and we will see each other within at least the next seven days.

Mike Crispin: Yes, we will. Looking forward to it, Nate. 

Nate McBride: All right, man. Be good. 

Mike Crispin: Be good. You too. Bye 

Nate McBride: everybody. 

Mike Crispin: Take care, everyone.

COIT Trance Bot: The calculus of it,

season three.

Verifying this identity.

Sometimes you just have to take it.

Sometimes you just have to take it

because it's season three [01:12:00] divided Autonomy,

verifying identity.

The calculus of it.